25 Responses to “Butterfly Kip Tutorial”

1. Funky247 on April 14th, 2010 8:04 pm

   @TheycallmeGuth better time means more intensity lol… since you’ve never tried it, you’re probably one of those people who has to segregate “cardio” and “strength”, while also never ever bothing to do high intensity stuff like sprinting

2. howarja on April 14th, 2010 8:53 pm

   Yes, Work = Force * Distance. Doing strict, gymnastic, or butterfly you do the same work, you’re moving the same body weight the same height ( chin over the bar). The difference is in the time that it takes to produce the work. Power = Work/ time. When doing strict pullups you are slower than any type of kipping pull up – thus less powerful. All styles of pull ups have there place. Just like a semi truck has purpose so does my car. But I don’t drive a semi to work, or us a car to pull 10 tons.

3. d00m33 on April 14th, 2010 9:33 pm

   Also remember for some people things will be different, and by that i mean a 300 pound guy might only be able to do 4 kipping pullups so for him it would be developing maximal power. For someone 120 pounds who can do like 50+ kips in a row WILL still get some gains for power but for that person the endurance/stamina is trained more than maximal power. It’s different for all kinds of people. I hope that was informative for you.

4. d00m33 on April 14th, 2010 10:31 pm

   Powerful movements like kips will help develop your sustained/relative power. Increasing maximum power is a different story though, and you would use weights anywhere from 50-85% of your 1 RM with your goal in the movement being SPEED. So reps per set would stop once you start slowing down (usually 2-8 reps based on the 1 RM percentage you used)

5. d00m33 on April 14th, 2010 10:49 pm

   “cheat” curls WOULD actually be more powerful than regular ones. The reason they are “less challenging” is because the strongest muscles in the body are being used to help it up. Of course if you’re doing curls you’re generally looking to isolate the biceps, and would not kip them. This momentum you speak of is generated by the hip and posterior chain muscles (the most powerful part of the body). That’s also why its called a “kip” it means ‘kick of the hip’.

6. deltafoverdeltax on April 14th, 2010 11:10 pm

   I’m not saying that neither exercise develops the body. I’m saying that they’re just lower resistance, higher rep exercises. They develop endurance, not power.

7. deltafoverdeltax on April 14th, 2010 11:28 pm

   Reading my comment again, I should’ve said “mass” and not “weight.” I’m not sure if that makes a difference.

   By your theory, cheat curls should develop more power than normal curls. They don’t. They’re just less challenging curls. They don’t challenge the body parts which generate the momentum and they don’t challenge the body parts that the exercise is meant to develop as much.

   The “increased” power comes from a movement which doesn’t develop the body.

8. d00m33 on April 15th, 2010 12:02 am

   @deltafoverdeltax

   That’s completely wrong. It uses more of your body, and if it allows you to do more pullups faster. The power output is higher, by scientific definition. This exercise isn’t meant to isolate and “work the arms”. It’s a power movement, which requires a full body functional movement. Hypertrophy and isolation have their place in training, but this exercise is designed for increasing power.

9. d00m33 on April 15th, 2010 12:45 am

   @vinnypaxienza

   Actually, it strengthens them immensely if you’re able to do it. It can be “hard on them” at first but that’s what the whole strengthening process is. Not recommended for beginners.

10. vinnypaxienza on April 15th, 2010 1:39 am

    this must be absolutely terrible for your joints…

11. DaBozza on April 15th, 2010 1:56 am

    im an entering the 300 comp at the gym, its full on! loving it. im goin to try this kipping lol looks funny. Gota achieve 50pull ups

12. intheweeds on April 15th, 2010 2:33 am

    while I won’t say that momentum is not taken advantage of during kipping pull ups, momentum has to be created and maintained. there is an obvious increase in power created by adding the lower body into the movement. when you learn to kip you learn to pop your hips forward and transfer this energy into assistance for the arms.

13. deltafoverdeltax on April 15th, 2010 3:29 am

    Not if you’re swinging around. Then your weight’s doing the work, not your muscles. That’s the whole point, that’s why you can do a greater number of repetitions with the same body.

14. intheweeds on April 15th, 2010 3:37 am

    @deltafoverdeltax … if you are moving your body a given distance faster then you are increasing power output.

15. deltafoverdeltax on April 15th, 2010 3:55 am

    It engages muscles which have nothing to do with pulling yourself up with your arms in a way which doesn’t challenge them. It makes you able to do more pull-ups as though you weigh less, but it has nothing to do with maximizing power output.

16. Quejarse on April 15th, 2010 4:36 am

    @intheweeds I’ve actually never done dead hang in my crossfit gym before… but I don’t really care to. I think kipping is just more fun. I couldn’t give a shit about all the arguing between the two, though. Like you said, they are different exercises.

17. MrHanky35 on April 15th, 2010 5:15 am

    yea its best to shave youre hands regulerly if you do them often. having the caluses slide off hurt ALOT…

18. devitorules on April 15th, 2010 6:08 am

    Great job breaking down the individual aspects of the movement. I can’t wait to try it and annoy my fellow gym members!

19. sideshowlol on April 15th, 2010 6:28 am

    Kipping pull-ups sure do toughen up your hands too. There’s a rotational element when kipping which puts a lot more stress on the skin compared to regular pull-ups. Just be careful not to overdo it while you are learning them or your torn up hands will hinder your progress! I speak from experience. )

20. Toucan1981 on April 15th, 2010 7:01 am

    It is a rare thing to find, someone who can appreciate both I mean. I’m in the same boat as you intheweeds, I used to be strict on form of deadhangs and just did weights and cardio, now I love crossfit! Different exercises for different goals. Perfectly explained.

21. intheweeds on April 15th, 2010 7:02 am

    well it allows you to do a lot more repetitions for one. and it also helps your dead hang pull ups. im a marine by profession and part of our physical test is trying to complete a set of 20 dead-hang pull ups. i was stalled at 18 for a very long time. then i started kipping during crossfit (we do a TON of pullups)… well i quickly surpassed 20 deadhangs. i can now do about 35-40 kipping pull ups and 25 dead hangs.

22. intheweeds on April 15th, 2010 7:09 am

    finally someone who does dead hangs that can stop and think before being dismissive! ive never understood why people argue about the two… because for me they are just different exercises. at my crossfit gym we also do dead hang pull ups and weighted pull ups. just depends on what we are trying to accomplish…

23. rsm808 on April 15th, 2010 7:32 am

    yep

24. rmsolympic1 on April 15th, 2010 8:14 am

    I see what you’re saying. Fromt he looks of kips, I guessed that they were more of a power-building exercise or technique, since they seem to generate maximal power, as opposed to dead hang pull-ups, which seem to demand strength applied slowly. One’s fast-twitch, and the the other slow-twitch. I’m going to start kipping along with the deads.

25. intheweeds on April 15th, 2010 9:12 am

    The point is not to replace dead-hang (I assume this is what you mean by regular) pull-ups, but to maximize power output; Apples and Oranges. Power = Force(Distance)/Time
    Using kipping pull-ups engages many more muscles allowing one to move their bodyweight a greater distance in a smaller time frame.
    During a workout meant to build work capacity and maximize power output, kipping pull ups are better suited.

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